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morgan
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|  | The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Thread Started on Nov 4, 2007, 11:54am » | |
Hey everyone!!
I just thought with all the kiwi's I have seen on this forum it might be nice to just keep track of which uni's everyone has applied to etc. As a starter you might like to include the following details:
Which Aussie uni have you applied to/ are attending?
Where in NZ did you study?
What was your undergrad degree?
Have you applied to one of the NZ med schools?
Where did you grow up?
And maybe a little story about yourself including how you found out about the Australian Medical schools and why you chose to apply to the university you chose. Add anything else that may be interesting for kiwi's thinking about going through this process in the future.
Right so have been looking around the forum and there's quite a hoard of us accumulating....
Come and say hi -- introduce yourself.
where are you from, previous UNI, what uni you're at/applying for, what made you "cross the ditch"...
I'LL START!
From: Milford, North Shore, Auckland.
NZ Uni: Auckland - BSc (Hons) in Pharmacology... shudder
At now: Griffith MBBS (end of year 2! nearly halfway)
Why:... it's cheaper, 2 years shorter, postgrad pay is better, and to be honest another year at Auckland Uni made me feel a bit ill... and I'm too much of a baby for the cold Dunedin temperatures (I did get into both, but turned them down).
COME AND POST!
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Mooing
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #1 on Nov 4, 2007, 11:58am » | |
Milford? North Shore? Auckland???!!! I lived in the North Shore too! I was more Devonport way.
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morgan
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #2 on Nov 4, 2007, 12:16pm » | |
Wow! Where in Devonport... my best friends are all from there  It's FABULOUS...
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Little Lost KIwI
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #3 on Nov 4, 2007, 12:46pm » | |
I'm applying for Flinders (currently finishing my degree so am in Category 2 with a good chance of getting a place)
I'm finishing my BSc in Biochemistry and Genetics at Massey university in Palmy.
I've also applied to Auckland Med School for the first time this year (haven't applied in undergrad) but I didn't do very well in UMAT so will see what happens.
I lived in Masterton up until studying in Palmy.
I originally found out about the Australian grad-entry programmes when I came home from uni deciding I didn't want to do vet anymore and wanted to study medicine. I was atually looking to see if there were any med schools that accepted people who were only halfway through a degree. The idea of starting with graduates and completing the degree in 4 years really appealed to to me. I decided to look further into it and found out I would have to sit GAMSAT. I didn't think I had done very well in GAMSAT so basically forgot about it for a few months until I got my results and realised I could really apply. It took a while to narrow down my options but I eventually chose Flinders for a number of reasons including the living costs of living in Adelaide and the reputation of the uni. I have also applied to Auckland to keep my options open since Adelaide seems so far away. Even still I think I will choose Flinders if I get the choice! WIll be good to hear some other stories.
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #4 on Nov 4, 2007, 4:01pm » | |
Would you guys be subject to the 10 year moratorium on graduation? Do you care?
Govt info link
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Infuriated
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #5 on Nov 4, 2007, 4:10pm » | |
NZers are like locals in Aus when it comes to almost anything and if trained here than they are exactly the same as a local student
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morgan
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #6 on Nov 4, 2007, 4:22pm » | |
NZ and Australia have a reciprocal training agreement... with both their Med Schools (NZ/AUS citizens can intern in either country) and the colleges (most/all of them say "x years of training must be done in either Australia or NZ)...
So thankfully, not included in the moratorium situation!
But thanks for the concern!
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morgan
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #7 on Nov 4, 2007, 5:32pm » | |
hildy, sheepish, what are you guys actually talking about?? NZers are automatically "PR's" of Australia by default for everything aside from getting Austudy and being able to delay paying HECS (aka the good bits!). But we're CSP placed, are treated as local in our own states when applying for internship etc...
Am i missing something?
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sheepish
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #8 on Nov 4, 2007, 8:32pm » | |
Quote:hildy, sheepish, what are you guys actually talking about?? NZers are automatically "PR's" of Australia by default for everything aside from getting Austudy and being able to delay paying HECS (aka the good bits!). But we're CSP placed, are treated as local in our own states when applying for internship etc...
Am i missing something? |
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I would suggest that you check carefully about this. From the USyd website:
Quote:Q. Who is considered a local student?
A. Local students are citizens or permanent residents of Australia or citizens of New Zealand. Permanent residents of New Zealand are not categorised as local students for admission into Australian universities. |
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Obviously they are referring to the admissions process, but I would not make assumptions about being treated identically after graduation.
As far as my last 10 minutes of Googling reveals, NZ residents are considered "Temporary Residents" while in Australia. They are subject to the 10-year moratorium unless they hold or have applied for Australian Permanent Residency prior to commencing their degree in an Australian Medical School.
Tropical Medicine Training Website
GP Registrars Australia Website
Doctor Connect Website
Student Doctor Website
Health Insurance Act 1973 Section 19AB
Dept of Health & Ageing
Basically from my reading, unless you are officially an Australian PR or Citizen, or you already hold an AMC-recognised postgraduate specialist qualification, you cannot obtain a full Medicare Provider Number unless you gain an exemption or engage in an Area of Need or Rural placement (where you may have temporary exemption or be fast-tracked to a 5-year moratorium). Either way you must become an Australian Permanent Resident to gain ongoing access to Medicare Benefits.
I would suggest any NZ citizens check with your medical school and with Medicare to check your eligibility on graduation. You should also check whether your target Specialist training program will accept non-Australian Citizens/Permanent Residents.
Lyndal, do you know what the rules are here?
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irishkiwi
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #9 on Nov 5, 2007, 8:01am » | |
Hi fellas and fellesses,
I grew mainly in Christchurch and undertook my B.Sc (Biochmeistry) at Otago - finishing up in 1998. I have been in Oz for 7 years and currently work as an ambo. I have always wanted to be a Dr and tried in New Zealand, but never made the marks at school or uni (or so I thought).
I didnt even look at doing med after my studies as I thought my marks were to poor - Obviousley I was wrong as I got into Monash for next year on my first attempt. Damn - wish I had tried that a few years ago.
Any way - with regard to the PR status. I have looked into this in some depth and note the following.
A NZ citizen is not a permanent resident, they are here on a special category visa. This allows most of the basic rights of PR status, but unfortunately not the really good ones.
With fees for uni, if you are offered a CSP place you have to pay the fees up front (the loan system is not available at all) and you dont get the 20% discount that Oz citizens get.
Second, if you want to work as a GP following qualification, you are basically treated as an overseas doctor and are not allowed to work in a metro area for 10 years!!!!!
I looked at converting my special category visa (SCV) to a PR status, assuming this would be a simple process (I dont want to have to support the Wallabies!). Unfortunately this is not the case. There is no simple conversion from the SCV to the PR, in fact you have to go through the standard PR application which is hugely expensive and time consuming. In addition, you have to provide reasons for Oz to give you PR status eg bringing lots of money in to the country, or working in an industry of need (plenty of students here!)
So the alternative is citizenship - which is incredibly simple. The rules changed on 1 October, so I am not 100% familiar with the new ones, but basically poay $240, sit a multi choice test, wait 6 months and hey presto - one rubber stamp.
The thing to remember is that there are 2 important dates around citizenship. Fees are based around the university census date (31/3 for Monash) and as long as you hold citizenship by then you can have access to the loan system or the 20% discount (whichever suits you)
The working as a metro GP requires you to be a citizen PRIOR to starting your course. My course starts on 29 Jan, therefore I must have been assigned Oz citizenship status by 28 Jan.
Well, thats my understanding, for what its worth.
Its worth noting, that if you can provide a substantial reason for speeding up the citizenship process they can push it through faster (so they say), but I would get onto it real soon as the standard process time is just over 6 months!!!!
Ringing up and making an appt ASAP (131 880) also you will need to get your www.justic.govt.nz/privacy FULL conviction history. This also takes 10 days to get process, plus postage time to Australia
Hope this is of interest
Irish Kiwi
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morgan
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #10 on Nov 5, 2007, 2:44pm » | |
Quote:
Quote:hildy, sheepish, what are you guys actually talking about?? NZers are automatically "PR's" of Australia by default for everything aside from getting Austudy and being able to delay paying HECS (aka the good bits!). But we're CSP placed, are treated as local in our own states when applying for internship etc...
Am i missing something? |
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I would suggest that you check carefully about this. From the USyd website:
Quote:Q. Who is considered a local student?
A. Local students are citizens or permanent residents of Australia or citizens of New Zealand. Permanent residents of New Zealand are not categorised as local students for admission into Australian universities. |
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Obviously they are referring to the admissions process, but I would not make assumptions about being treated identically after graduation.
As far as my last 10 minutes of Googling reveals, NZ residents are considered "Temporary Residents" while in Australia. They are subject to the 10-year moratorium unless they hold or have applied for Australian Permanent Residency prior to commencing their degree in an Australian Medical School.
Tropical Medicine Training Website
GP Registrars Australia Website
Doctor Connect Website
Student Doctor Website
Health Insurance Act 1973 Section 19AB
Dept of Health & Ageing
Basically from my reading, unless you are officially an Australian PR or Citizen, or you already hold an AMC-recognised postgraduate specialist qualification, you cannot obtain a full Medicare Provider Number unless you gain an exemption or engage in an Area of Need or Rural placement (where you may have temporary exemption or be fast-tracked to a 5-year moratorium). Either way you must become an Australian Permanent Resident to gain ongoing access to Medicare Benefits.
I would suggest any NZ citizens check with your medical school and with Medicare to check your eligibility on graduation. You should also check whether your target Specialist training program will accept non-Australian Citizens/Permanent Residents.
Lyndal, do you know what the rules are here? |
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Right so as far being a med student i'm ok
I know I can get an internship, and am considered in the same allocation pool as australians...
But what about after that? Without a medicare provider number can I start training?
ok... totally freaking out now....
what is the point of the Australian Govt investing time and $$$ into NZ Citizens with CSP places and equal rights to internship if we can't gain access to medicare no's???
also -how does it work with UK doctors that do 1-2 years of their training here?
__________________________________________________________
so I got the downlow
Can work in australia, but only in areas of dire need. Officially known as an 'former overseas medical student'.
Districts of workforce shortage.
e.g. - QLD: beaudesert
www9.health.gov.au/otdw/dws_database/cf/index.cfm outlines the workforce shortage areas in General Practise.
Also look up Doctor Connect www.doctorconnect.gov.au
So essentially we can't train at a mainstream hospital, we can only train where there is a workforce shortage..
once we start a training programme and are permanent residents i.e. not our current status, then the 10-year moratorium starts... once that is over we no longer have to work in "districts of workforce shortage" ...
essentially, we have similar restrictions on us as QHMBS students except
1. we don't get $30,000 a year throughout med school
2. we don't have to stay in Qld.
If we don't want to work in these areas, then we can't gain access to a medicare provider number and your patients can't access medicare, so you can't bulk bill for referral or otherwise, so will have difficulty gaining employment if you want to work in mainstream areas... so we can train in private hospitals or practices that don't bulk bill anything.
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morgan
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #11 on Nov 5, 2007, 4:39pm » | |
More confusion......
Right so this is all from the DoctorConnect website.
OTDs with permanent residency or citizenship in Australia should note they are also required to work in an Area of Need unless they hold full medical registration in Australia
full medical registration: Graduates of medical schools in Australia or New Zealand that have been accredited by the Australian Medical Council (AMC), and who have completed the approved period of intern training;
So if I've completed my internship then I don't need to work in an area of need?
But wait, there's a second restriction:
OTDs with permanent residency or citizenship in Australia are also subject to a second type of Medicare provider number restriction if they first worked in Australia as a doctor after 1 November 1996. This restriction requires them to meet one of the following requirements in order to be issued with a Medicare provider number and therefore provide services that attract Medicare rebates. They must:
* have postgraduate qualifications as a specialist or GP which are recognised by the relevant Australian Specialist Medical College. For overseas trained specialists, this means completion of the standard pathway for specialist assessment in Australia. For GPs, this means Fellowship of the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners. If you have postgraduate qualifications in general practice from a country other than Australia, you must complete the standard pathway for GP assessment in Australia to meet the requirement for Fellowship of the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners; or
* be on an approved postgraduate training program in Australia. Approved training programs are offered by the Australian Specialist Medical Colleges and lead to Fellowship of the College. The approved training program for general practitioners is the Australian General Practice Training Program; or
* be on an Australian approved workforce program (either the Rural Locum Relief Program in which positions are typically located in Rural, Remote or Metropolitan Area classifications 4--7, or on the Approved Medical Deputising Service Program).
So if I'm a PR and on a training programme then I don't need to work in an Area of Need to get a Medicare provider number?
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Infuriated
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #12 on Nov 5, 2007, 8:58pm » | |
Morgan I would talk to your MedSoc as they will have all the information etc and have better access to resources and the people to be able to talk to directly in regards to all of this stuff - and I mean in Griffith MedSoc can't help I'm sure UQMS would be able (just due to the increased time they have been around)
They maybe able to put you into contact with NZ Docs etc as well
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sheepish
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #13 on Nov 5, 2007, 9:23pm » | |
BTW I didn't mean to freak you all out... just thought it might be worth thinking about.
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Mooing
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #14 on Nov 6, 2007, 8:38am » | |
This is news to me, and I'm freaked out by it. Can we please do s'more research on this matter?
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #15 on Nov 6, 2007, 9:21am » | |
Quote:| This is news to me, and I'm freaked out by it. Can we please do s'more research on this matter? |
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I think that's a great idea - it would help to cut down on the panic factor. Once you do your research, please feel free to post it up here for others to share, Moo.
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Little Lost KIwI
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #16 on Nov 6, 2007, 10:10am » | |
well that's certainly changed the mood of the thread... maybe we should have another thread dedicated to this matter- it sounds complicated... ah well- at least I will know what's happening before I accept any offers
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morgan
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #17 on Nov 6, 2007, 10:15am » | |
Right so after help from the wonderful Hildy, a chat with Griffith med dean, and a length phone conversation with the Dept of Health and aging, I have come to the following conclusion:
Ok so as long as you were a NZ Citizen when you enrolled at med school then you're subject to it --- becoming a citizen/resident of australia doesn't change a thing (well it does, but it just means you start the moratorium).
So essentially there are two types of medicare numbers.
1. allows to prescribe, refer, order tests -- we can get this one!
2. allows your patients to seek medicare rebates i.e. essential for GPs (and GP registrars), or seeing any kind of private patient as a specialist - we can't get this one!.. UNLESS we work in a "district of workforce shortage" aka a category 4-7 (essentially remote and nearly remote).
SO... we can train as specialists in the hospital, but once it's done... we can't see private patients.. essentially capping our salary at $200k or whatever consultants earn in the public setting.
Once 10 years are up we can then start charging patients privately.
To start the 10 years to have to be (a) registered as a medical professional (happens at the end of internship) and (b) a PR/citizen of australia -- which you also have to apply for (i.e. we are currently not PR's!)
please correct me if i've gotten terminology wrong.
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Mooing
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #18 on Nov 6, 2007, 10:32am » | |
I called a couple of training collgeges, Medicare and Medicare Provider Eligibility offices.
They have confirmed what Morgan wrote in the post above. To re-iterate:
- You're a NZ citizen at the time of applying for/studying med in Aus. You are classified as a Temporary Resident. Changing your residency status while undertaking your degree won't change this "Temporary Resident" classification.
- As a temporary resident, you are subjected to a 10 year moratorium.
- This 10 year moratorium has it's implications once you have finished with your specialty training, i.e. once you're a specialist.
- At the crux of it is your ability to see private patients. You will not be allowed to do this for the 10 year period. This may have implications for where you work, seeing that some hospitals require you to see some private patients as well.
My question is, will this impact our specialty training options? The people I spoke to did not want to comment on that. What are your thoughts and opinions?
EDIT: Also, this 10 year business... I'm confused... Do we HAVE to spend those 10 years in a district of workforce shortage?
PS District of workforce shortage is different to an area of health need.
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morgan
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #20 on Nov 6, 2007, 11:14am » | |
Would you like me to get some AMSA comments on this issue?
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morgan
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #21 on Nov 6, 2007, 11:16am » | |
That would be fabulous, if you could?
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Mooing
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #22 on Nov 6, 2007, 11:22am » | |
Yes please, Galta.
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Little Lost KIwI
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #23 on Nov 6, 2007, 11:34am » | |
and the next question is how does New Zealand treat people who have trained in Australia? can we come back immediately and work where we like?
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morgan
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #24 on Nov 6, 2007, 1:00pm » | |
yes, we're given equal weighting for selection of intern places - can return easy as pie
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irishkiwi
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #25 on Nov 6, 2007, 2:04pm » | |
OK, there seems to be a lot of confusion about this. I shall impart what I know.
You must be an OZ citizen or PR to be exempt from the 10 yr moratorium PRIOR to starting your training as a doctor. For me, my course starts on 29 Jan, that means I must be a citizen or PR by 28 Jan!!!
A NZ citizen who arrived on a NZ passport is neither a citizen or a PR. They hold a Special Catergory Visa (SCV).
To get PR status costs ~$2500 (from memory), while citizenship costs ~$250.
Both processes are long (citizenship is at least 6 months), but the citizenship is MUCH easier as the SCV is equivalent to PR status (but as we can see, definitely NOT the same). Basically sit the new citizenship test and provide a copy of your criminal history from NZ. You can speed the process up by showing a valid reason (Im yet to find out if med school is a valid reason to speed things up)
So, contact the dept of immigration www.immi.gov.au , sit the test, get your history from NZ and learn the words to Waltzing Matilda
Irish Kiwi
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usydnzer
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #26 on Nov 6, 2007, 6:41pm » | |
hey all, new member here and i've been putting it off for ages but finally decided to join!
irishkiwi, in regards to australian citizenship, you have to be a permanent resident before you can apply to sit that citizenship test. so that option is ruled out.
i think us nzers are really screwed over by this rule. and what's the point in including us in there especially if we enrol in an aus uni as a domestic student? as soon as we finish our intern year we'll get full registration with the board and we would have done the same thing as all the other aus students.
i went to that doctorconnect website and it refers to OTDs (overseas trained doctors) and after reading that i thought it was only if you were trained overseas but reading what some of you have written after speaking to ur deans, etc. i guess it includes doctors from overseas even if they're trained in aus. i cant help but feel a little ticked off that none of the universities mentioned this tiny little detail. 10 years is a very long time!
i'm sorry that my first post (except for the intro post) had to be an angry rant! haha
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| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #27 on Nov 6, 2007, 6:53pm » | |
and to keep with this original topic.....
aus uni: MBBS at University of Sydney, starting next year and i cant wait! (despite this 10 year moratorium business...)
undergrad degree: BSc (biomed) at University of Auckland
applied to NZ?: yes at auckland in first year but got turned down, didnt bother applying for auckland or otago this year.
location: currently in Auckland but Sydney next year
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morgan
Doctor
Kia Kaha
member is offline
mmmm feijoas
Joined: Feb 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 830
Location: Adelaide
| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #28 on Nov 6, 2007, 7:25pm » | |
hey! welcome
which part of auckland are you living in? great to have you around!
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irishkiwi
Medical Student
Monash University
2009
Vidi Vici Veni
member is offline
I am allergic to stupid people
Joined: May 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 298
Location: Lost in the health system
| | Re: The NEW ZEALAND thread!
« Reply #29 on Nov 7, 2007, 8:49am » | |
Hi usydnzer
As i said earlier - the rules have changed, and I am not sure how. I have looked into it, and for all NZers who arrived prior to 26 feb 01 the details that I have listed are correct.
For those who arrive after this date, you need to get PR, which can be achieved by 3 methods only. Spousal PR/citizenship, Appealing qualifications or are employer sponsered.
If you dont meet those methods, then you cant get PR or citizenship
Sorry if I led anyone astray
Regards
Irish Kiwi
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